Welch

Interview with Martha Washington Curtiss Welch on board the Carnival Conquest cruise ship in her cabin 9/21/06. Also present Myrtle Bean Reese. Interviewer: Kathleen Ryan

KRAnd you have an advantage because now it's like the fourth time you've heard it. The questions. So you know how I like to start this out. If you could please say your name and the years you served in the military.

MWWell, my name is Martha Curtiss, Martha Washington Curtiss Welch. I was born on a farm in Illinois. My parents lost their farm because of the crash. And we moved to Des Moines, Iowa when I was seven years old. A great aunt of my father, my father's aunt, took the family of five in.

KRCan I please interrupt you here?

MWYes.

KRI just want to make sure for the transcription that we have the correct spelling of Curtiss and Welch. So can you please spell those for me?

MWYes. My maiden name is Curtiss, spelled C-U-R-T-I-double-S. And Martha Custis 00:01:00is C-U-S-T-I-S. I was born on George Washington's birthday, so that's why my name is Martha Washington. So, anyway --

KRAnd Welch, how do we spell Welch?

MWW-E-L-C-H. Like Welch's grape juice, only we're not related.

KRI just want to make sure.

MWYes.

KRI ask for the transcript, because we have to have these things accurate.

MWExactly.

KRAlright. So let's go on. You were saying your family had lost the farm with the Depression, so you had moved to Des Moines to be with your grandparents.

MWWith a great aunt.

KRWith a great aunt. Excuse me.

MWYes. Anyway, from there I just evolved like most kids do. I went to high school in Des Moines, Iowa, and graduated in 1939. I was, I took voice lessons. I went to Drake University for one year.

KRWhere is Drake University?

MWIt's in Des Moines, Iowa. And I took music. And I, I had thought I would 00:02:00eventually make, have a musical career. Teach music, or voice lessons or something. But, as the war came along, I, since my home town was the home town of the WACs, I thought I didn't really want to go into the WACs. Because that was, then I'd stay home. So I had seen the uniforms of the WAVES and I had thought they were pretty sharp, so I decided to join the WAVES.

KRNow, why did you feel the need to join a branch of the military service?

MWWell, partly because my brother was in the paratrooop infantry and he was overseas in Europe. He had written, well, this was later -- well, he wasn't 00:03:00objecting to my going in the service. I had written I was thinking about going in. I thought I might as well do something worthwhile. So I did join, and I went to Hunter College, Bronx. Bronx, New York, which is the training station for WAVES at that time.

KRCareful!

MWIf it didn't pull it out?

KRIt didn't. We're still OK.

MWAlright. Anyway, after boot camp they sent me to Hunt -- to the naval training station in Newport, Rhode Island. Now this training station was called a pre-commissioning station, where the ships that are being commissioned are outfitted, the ships, with their personnel. Because we had aircraft carriers, we 00:04:00had --

MRThis is what I was looking for.

KRYou found it. Good good. So let's go ahead and continue.

MWAircraft carriers and what do you call them? Tin cans. The destroyers.

KRNow this was something, just to clarify for me her, you didn't end up going to any --

MWSchool? No.

KRYou went directly to a base?

MWThat's correct.

KRWhy -- how did that happen?

MWI didn't have the training to be a yeoman, per se. So I wound up doing the service jackets of servicemen that were -- well, they send the papers through 00:05:00that have missed being filed in the service jackets of servicemen that are overseas someplace or have been reassigned. So I would reassign the papers that were lost over toward the men and then look up and see where there were sent. We would send these medicals and other sort of thing to wherever these servicemen were sent.

KRWhy -- because everyone else I've spoken with, you're the only one who hasn't gotten -- I mean the Navy gave this extra training to people. They said, "We need you to do this, we need you to do this. Here's your extra training." So why didn't you get that sort of extra training?

MWI didn't ask for it, for one thing. And, perhaps, I don't know, maybe they figured I didn't qualify enough to be a yeoman. The yeomen were, they had to be 00:06:00a good typist, and they had to have some good clerical training in their background. And I didn't have it. I was just a simple seaman, and I'm still a simple seaman.

KRBut you also had another job that you did. Well, not a job, maybe, but you had another role while you were serving in the Navy, correct?

MWYes, I used to sing in church services aboard some of the ships. Sometimes before they had gone overseas and sometimes later. I loved going out and singing aboard the ships. It was was fun.

KRSo who would you --

MWI enjoyed it.

KRsing for?

MWThe servicemen, yeah, that were aboard ship.

KRWas it you solo, or were there a group of women?

MWUsually I soloed.

KRReally?

MWYes.

KRWow. I mean, I know you're a singer and everything, but that seems like it 00:07:00would be rather nervewracking. It's a different sort of job.

MWI loved it. I loved it.

KRWhat was so great about it?

MWWell, just performing, generally speaking. I had studied voice with a well-known instructor in Des Moines, Iowa, and really, really enjoyed music. You know, the popular music of the day and there was a small band there. Sometimes I sang with that band. Another friend from California, she wasn't a friend until she came from California, but she was a singer also. And beteween the two of us, they had us moving around to the different bases and what, singing musical programs.

KR That has to be --

MWIt was fun. Different.

KRWell, yes. It it's special type of job. Not everyone can do it.

MWWell, that's true. Very true. It's nioce to have a talent and enjoy doing it. And that to me was a talent. I was a lucky.

KROh, I would think so.

MWIn fact, one time before I went into the WAVES, I was in California and I was invited to sing at the USO.

KRYou went to California a couple of times. I remember us taking about this before.

MWYeah.

KR You didn't, you lived in Illinois, but before you even joined the WAVES you ended up going to California, correct?

MWYes.

KRTell me about that.

MWWell, a friend of my son's was taking a trip to California and wanted to know if I wanted to ride out with him. And I said, "Sure, I'd love to." And I came to 00:09:00California then. I used to sing in the choirs here. Well, here isn't California. Anyway, I really enjoyed the musical programs and I enjoyed begin able to perform.

KRWell, yes, it seems great. And what you're doing, to a degree, you're also being a great morale boost for the servicemen who were there. You know hear the popular songs, hear a pretty young girl sing songs, all of that sort of stuff. That's an important role to be playing.

MWYes it was. It was fun. It was delightful.

KRSo where did you end up being mostly stationed when you were in the military? In the Navy?

MWNewport, Rhode Island the entire time I was in the WAVES. I never asked for a 00:10:00change of venue at all.

KRWhy was that?

MWWhy?

KRMmm-hmm.

MWI was happy where I was. My, there was a time when some of the WAVES could have gone, transferred over to Hawaii. Because Hawaii wasn't, didn't have that many WAVES on it at that time. But, I didn't go. I was a little afraid to. I thought, they had been broken into I had heard. And I thought, "I really don't want to get into someplace where they have that sort of problems." So I didn't go.

KRWhen women were asked to serve, you were filling jobs, freeing men so they could go serve overseas. Did you ever feel any resentment from men when you did these sorts of jobs?

MWOh, heavens no. Not with me. I wasn't freeing a man to sing someplace else or 00:11:00anything like that. All my little jobs were so simple, I wasn't a big shot (laughs) yeoman. And all of the others most of the other women earned their ranks and rates by their capabilities served. And mine was not anything that was going to be something that would grow.

KRYou knew that you were going to be in this position and that was basically what you would do because of your training>

MWYes. Because I enjoyed it. Right.

KRThe WAVES, I mean there were,the WAVES at the time -- let's go back. I'm sorry. I got distracted there for a second. You talked about liking the uniform.

MWMmm-hmm.

KRTell me about the uniform.

MWWell, I don't know, I just didn't particularly care for the WAC uniform, because that was local. That was something I saw everyday. I was more interested in number one, getting out of, getting away from home. And seeing New York. I was interested in seeing the East Coast. So that was one of my basic reasons for it. This was strictly personal. Desire to get to the East Coast.

KRI know when I read the oral history for Mildred McAfee, she was talking about the uniforms, and she said, they put a lot of thought in the uniform. These were -- she talked about the uniform for pages and pages and pages of this oral history interview. And you said, you liked them. What was it you found so attractive?

MWI liked the color, for one thing, because they were very flattering, I thought. And I liked, I just liked being in the uniform for one thing. My brother, I said he was a paratroop officer in Europe, and he had written me once that he had, he had worn the same pair of undershorts for 30 days. So, I thought, "Well, I'll run down to the ship's store and I'll send him" -- well, I did. I sent him a whole bunch of undershorts. But you see, he was in combat area, whre I don't know what was happening them not be able to change clothes. 00:14:00But maybe they just didn't have the facilities at their disposal.

KRHe ended up having -- he ended up getting captured at one point?

MWYes, but this wasn't in World War II.

KRThat was later on?

MWVery much so, yes.

KRSo let's continue, we'll get to that. Let's continue with World War II. Where were you on VJ-Day as the war ended?

MWV-J Day I was at Newport, Rhode Island and everybody was elated. Of course, this -- V-E Day is what I'm referring to. When the European war was over. And we were absolutely thrilled to death that part of our men were coming home. Of 00:15:00which my brother was one.

KRIt was a good thing.

MWYes.

KRWhat was it like? What was the atmosphere like?

MWWell, we were all so delighted that I think we had a party. It's, it's hard to remember those details.

MRYeah, I can't remember where I was.

KRYes.

MRYou'd have to give me date of when V-J Day was and then I could think about it.

KRWork backwards. You mentioned while Myrtle was talking about President Roosevelt visiting.

MWThat was while I was at boot camp.

KRTell me about that.

MWAt Hunter College, Bronx, New York. Yeah, he came for inspection and we were 00:16:00in the armoury there at Hunter and it was shortly before we were sent out duty stations. That was an interesting day.

KRWhat was so interesting about it? What happened?

MWJust that he was there and he was the president of the United States. To have him be there and you felt honored. Very very honored. That here was this brilliant man coming to review all these young women. You felt, you're part of that young women.

MRPlus the president is our commander in chief.

MWAbsolutely.

MRIt was out top boss.

MWYes.

KRDid it help to make you feel that what you were doing was important.

MWOh yeah, sure. Yeah. Only I didn't feel as near as important as I felt the gals I was working with were.

KRWhy is that?

MWWell, they had more training that I did, so consequently they had more responsibility. I had very little responsibility, per se, except I'd be in files and to look up their names of people whose medicals and all sorts of information that needed to be in those files. I was just very glad that was a job I could do. That was worthwhile.

KRDid you ever feel when you were growing up that you'd be doing a job like that.

MWOh, heavens no.

KRWhat did you think you were going to do?

MWSinging. (laughs). Yes.

KRYou were hoping to be like, one of the -- one of the singing stars of the day.

MWOh, of course. Who wouldn't?

KROf course. And it's a great, with the musicals and everything that was happening, it was a big role.

MWExactly. It was fun.

KRAs the war started to end, when did you leave the WAVES?

MWAfter the war was over. After V-J Day.

KROK/.

MWI was sent to the Na -- let's see. Illinois. The naval recruiting station, I guess it was, where they discharge people from the service. And that's where I was discharged was at the Illinois, it wasn't a training station. Can you think 00:19:00what it was?

MRI can't think of the names.

MWYeah?

KRThat's ok. We can write.

MRI can't think of the names where we sent anybody. It could have been a recruiting, or a base, closest to your home or somewhere.

MWWell, I didn't have any close to my home, aside from the station in Illinois.

MROh, there was a name for it.

MWYes.

MRThere was a name for it, because that's what I had in the --

KRWell we can come back to that.

MRI can't think of it.

KRWe can pick it up at some later time. That's OK. So when was this that you were discharged?

MW The date? It was either in November or December.

KROf '45?

MW'46 I think. '45 or '46.

KRSo were you in for a full year after --

MWI was in for a year and a half.

KRSo it was, so you were in for a full year -- when did you join again?

MWDecember, I think it was december of 1944.

KRSo you were in almost a year after the war ended?

MWAfter V-E Day, yes.

KRBecause a lot of women were gone like pretty quick after that.

MRAt lot of, a lot of our girls didn't stay in long at all.

KRMmm-mmm, mmm-mmm. So you were in a little bit longer then finally, ultimately got discharged. Had you met anyone at this point? What did you do after you got discharged?

MWI went home and I went on -- and I started on the G-I Bill at Drake University.

KRSo you went back to college.

MWI started back to college. Then I had an appendicitis attack within less than 00:21:00six months after I was home. So I went into the veteran's hospital there and I had surgery on my appendix. From there I started college, yeah, at Drake University, but after I had the surgery I wasn't too gung ho to be chasing around places. So I just stayed home and eventually I met my husband. I had known he and his family from the time I was a little girl, but his family were educators. His father was a professor of social studies and his mother was a professor of english. Really, real nice family. And my parents were real pleased.

KRSo you met him and you got married.

MWRight.

KRWhen was this?

MWLet's see. Well, we were married December 20th, 1946. And then -- '46? '47. My first child was born in 1949.

KROK.

MWHe just turned 50 -- 57. We -- on September 1st.

KRMmm-hmm. How did you end up in California?

MWWell, I had liked the weather out here before in California, when I was here. Everybody who went through California from the service, half of them wound up coming back. So I was one of those who did.

KRSo when you came before, it was through the service. I didn't realize it was through the service. I thought you came on your own.

MW Well, I did. I came with a friend, of my son's, no of my brother's -- was coming to California on a vacation and just drove out with taht person. I stayed in a, worked in a bakery in Lynnwood. Eeeked out a living, and I mean that literally because you didn't make much money in a bakery. This is why there's no background on any Social Security for me. But after my children were growing, well, I was busy with my family. Very busy with my family. Because I was determined my children were going to enjoy a certain amount of life that I had never experienced. So they all became AAU swimmers. My oldest son made 00:24:00All-American three times. He was -- all three of them were distance swimmers and had endurance, but that's beside the point.

KRBut, no. You gave them things and gave them a tool that they could use when, to get, to go to school and that sort of thing. You say you wanted to give them something you didn't have.

MWRight.

KRWas that because of losign the farm, growing up in the Depression.

MWNo, because I could see that I missed enjoying swimming. And it seemed to me kids loved, really really enjoyed swimming. So I thought, "I'm not going to let my kids miss it." So they didn't.

KRYou also, after the WAVES, ended up having a very rich volunteer life, correct?

MWYes. I worked with the California Special Olympics for, with, I worked with the lady who was director of aquatics for the national Special Olympics program. 00:25:00She wrote all the rules and regualtions for the swimming and diving programs for it. I worked directly with her. She was the director of aquatics for LA County. When she retired, she said, "Well, Martha, it's your ball of wax." So I carried on her job of running the swimming and diving program for the state games of California for about eight years after she retired.

KRAnd this was all volunteer?

MWYes.

KRWhat motivated you to do this sort of volunteer work?

MWWell, partly because I got started when my own children were growing up and the retarded program is, is such a worthwhile program that you can see what happens with these athletes when they have accomplished something that would 00:26:00have been not within their grasp without the program. So it's great.

KRDo you think because you were a member of the WAVES that made you more open to volunteering for something.

MWWell, I don't know whether that had any bearing on it or not. It could have, yes.

KRI just wonder, becuase I see a lot of the women I've spoken with, have done -- I've talked to a lot of women who've done a lot of volunteer work. So I'm wondering, you know, is it something that came --

MWI should have, I had not known that we were supposed to report the hours we had given all these years. Because I worked with the novice program in Los 00:27:00Angeles County as a volunteer. I was the inspe -- well, no, I get confused.

KRThat's alright. There are so many things you have to remember. Don't worry about those little detail things. That's ok. But you said you should have reported. Who should you have reported them to?

MWTo the WAVES.

MRWell, were you volunteering after you had joined the WAVES National? Or did you do it before that?

MWI didn't do it during the WAVES, no. This was after --

MRNo no no. After you were discharged and before you joined WAVES National were you doing this volunteering?

MWYes. Yes.

MRWell that wouldn't have counted.

MWThat was before, right.

MRSo that would count for volunteer service.

KRI'm lost here. Count for what?

MWFor volunteer hours that WAVES give, of their own time, after having been in 00:28:00the service. Why, they give all their women credit for all these volunteer hours that they donate.

MRIt's to keep -- we volunteer our hours now and report them to WAVES National to keep us tax-free.

KROh, I see.

MWFor the organization?

MRFor the organization.

MWI didn't realize that, it was that type.

MRThat's what they were harping on at the meeting.

MWYes.

MRWell, not harping, but commenting. "There are so many of you that haven't turned in their --

KRVolunteer --

MRvolunteer hours, it would help us so much."

KRI wasn't -- I was confused here as to where the volunteers.

MRYes yes yes.

KRWhy to report them, I was getting lost.

MWRight.

KRNow it makes sense. So, I was asking, was it something that started -- I know a lot of women who've done this. And they haven't just done it since they've been a member of WAVES National. They've done it all their lives.

MWTo a point.

KRThere's this interesting common thread with women I've spoken with. They have a very rich volunteer life.

MRMmm-hmm.

MWYes.

KRDo you think maybe you wanted to volunteer for these sorts of jobs because of the kind of work you had done for the WAVES and you realized you wanted to do something other than being a wife and mother and do housework and those sorts of things.

MWWell, I feel guilty that I didn't give credit where credit is do, is the way I feel about it now. I think all of us who have done some volunteering on the side 00:30:00and haven't reported it for the good of the program, I think. I should have done more.

KRBut you still have done a lot. I wonder its because you felt a need in your own life to be doing something, outside the house.

MWTo a point. To a point, yes. I'm not doing anything too much now. You see, I should be volunteering now, actually.

MRYou have the time to do it now.

MWYes, right. But now I'm in a bind because I can't drive. And as, I have a car and it's a darling car, good gas mileage and everything, but I'm afraid to drive it partly because I am subject to strokes now. And my mother died of strokes.

KRYou want to be careful.

MWExactly.

KRHow many children do you -- you had three?

MWThree children. Two boys and a girl.

KRTwo boys and a girl. What did they end up doing with their lives?

MWWell, my oldest son raced off-road for many years. He owned a VW wrecking yard for many years. He sold that in recent years. He ahs been married. He married a girl who had two children and he encouraged the boy -- he has a degree in art of all things. But he made all-American in the running at the College. Santa Barbara.

KROh, he was to Santa Barbara. That's my alma mater.

MWOh.

KRAnd then what about your other son?

MWMy younger son, he's a senior lifeguard. He's in charge of the lifeguards out at the lake.

KRIn LA County? He's the one you said had been with LA County for so long.

MWYes. Yes.

KRWell that's a good job. That's an important job.

MWYes it is. And they have to have EMT 1 training before they can even be lifeguards now. In practically everty state, or every pool that's run by a county facility, their lifeguards have to have EMT 1 training. Emergency medical training.

KRYes. It's an important --

MWVery.

KRvery important job. What about your daughter?

MWShe got her degree to teach and then she met her husband. They own a business called Wrightwood Racing. They put together parts that they sell worldwide for Porches.

KRWow. So your kids have done some pretty --

MWInteresting things.

KRVery much so. Very much so. When, if you had it to do over again, would have changed anything? Would you have joined the WAVEs again?

MWI would have. Because I wouldn't have any reason not to. You know, at that time I was delighted to go in the WAVES because I felt I was actually going to have an experience that was beneficial.

KRI'm sure you also, things have changed -- the changes have taken place since then. So many of the women I've spoke too say you can't understand how different it was. The atmosphere and everything.

MWWell, that's true, too. Yeah. There were so many things that we weren't allowed to do. You couldn't get married, for instance. You weren't supposed to 00:34:00get married and if you did and you got pregnant you're pppt -- out on your ear just that quick. But, many things have changed but the whole perspective, method of living has changed. The increase, or the technologies have changed. So our children, our children's children are not going to be as easy as I think ours and our children's lives were. But I don't know.

MRWell, you raised your kids all in one spot --

MWYes, that's right.

MRWhere I took mine all over the place.

KRAll over the place.

MRWe had nine transfers, but my kids grew up with there classmates were all 00:35:00military, or three-quarters of them were military.

MWYes, they would be.

MRWorld War II broke up the families in general.

MWYes.

MRAnd spread us all over the place.

MWRight.

MRI mean, I'm from New England. My husband was born in New Jersey, moved to Ohio. I met him in Philadelphia. I joined the Navy. Never came back home. How many fellows overseas met foreign brides and brought them home?

MWOh, lots of them.

KRLots of them.

MRThe World War just --

MWExploded.

MRbroke up the families all over because we never came, once we got discharged we never came back to our home town.

MWNo, that's right, mostly.

MRAnd you'll find the older generation, my mother's generation, all the families lived --

MWClose. In proximity.

MRClose. If they had acres and acres of farm, farmland, they gave their son so many acres and build up on the farm there.

MWExactly.

MRThey just lived in the communities.

MWMy mother, there were 10 children in my mother's family. Five boys and five girls. Five with brown eyes, five with dark eyes and dark hair and five with blue eyes and blonde hair. (laughs) Yeah. And that was an interesting family. And they had a lot of farmland in Illinois. And that's exactly what happened to those families. They were split up and they did give them land, for their, you know.

KRDo you think, and I asked Myrtle this and I'm curious what you think of it Martha. Did you ever think that you were a trailblazer when you were in the WAVES?

MW(laughs) Heavens no!

MRNever gave it a thought.

MWNot at all.

KRYou were just doing what you needed to do?

MWThat's right. You did what you felt was helping, you thought, and what was good and doing the right thing you might say. When I went in the WAVES it was partly because of my brother having been overseas. Like I say, he had been in some front lines over there, and apparently he had worn the same pair of undrshorts for two weeks.

KRYeah.

MRWell, they didn't have laundry facilities.

MWNo, no. And they didn't have access to clean clothes.

MRIt's just hard to imagine what the boys went through.

MWYes, it is.

KROh, I know it is.

MRThey're living in foxholes.

MWRight. They sure were.

KRWhat about now looking back. Do you think you were, now looking back, "Wow I did something kind of special?" Or do you think what you did is what you did.

MWWhat is impressive to me now is the reaction of people who didn't know what we were doing then and give us so much credit now.

MRJust here on the ship --

MWYes.

MRShake your hand. "Thank you for what you did." What did I do? It was just my job.

MWYes.

MRI went out, I think to me it was really a chance to get away from home.

MWSee?

MRI wanted to get away from home when I graduated from high school.

MWThat's typical of kids. Today, even. They all want to get away from home always.

KRSo is it the generations, is it people that lived through World War II who are grateful, or people who maybe didn't even know the WAVES existed?

MWYes. It's people who didn't know the WAVES existed a lot.

MRSo many of them who didn't know.

MWPeople on the ship say, "Thank you for what you did!"

MRIt's not in the history. It's not in the school books.

MWNo. So many people never heard of what WAVES stood for. Women Accepted for Volunteer Emergency Service. Simple.

MRWe volunteered our services so men could go do the same paperwork they were doing aboard the base, they could do it overseas because they wouldn't send the girls overseas.

MWBut now they do.

KRNow they do.

MRWomen's lib --

MW That's amazing.

MRthe girls are living aboard ship. Maybe they're not living side by side with a sailor.

MWWho knows?

MRNo, I mean they're not bunked in the same area.

MWNo, they're not bunked in the same area.

KRNo they're not.

MRJust like in hospitals they don't put male and female in the same room.

MWNo, they're not.

KRDo you have anything else you would like to add?

MWI don't know what it would be.

KRThat's OK. If you think of anything, you can always be in touch with me. I'm going to stop this right now.