Kastens

Interview with Monica Kastens via telephone from her home in Kansas 3/??/07. Interviewer: Kathleen Ryan

KROK, so we're recording at this point. I just had to run over to the machine which is a little distance from where I am. So, I'm going to start this, which is what I start with everybody. If I can have so say and spell for me your first and last name. And also your maiden name if it was different when you were in the WAVES.

MKOK. My name is Monica Rose Schulte Kastens. The Schulte is S-C-H-U-L-T-E. Kasterns is K-A-S-T-E-N-S.

KRAnd you served in the WAVES, correct?

MKWell, not until Korea. I was in the SPARs in World War II.

KRThat's right, you told me that in your e-mail. You were in the SPARs during World War II and then reenlisted and served in the WAVES.

MKRight.

KROK. So let's -- I'm going to back things up a little bit. Can you tell me about your background, growing up. Where did you grow up?

MKOh, I grew up on a small, on a farm near a very small town, in Orient, South Dakota. By the time World War II started, I was a senior in high school. At the time that World War II started, I remember I had just returned from a Four H trip to Chicago, which had been the first time, to a real time away from home which was interesting. I remember the night before I got home, which was December 7th.

KRYou heard about the bombing of Pearl Harbor when you returned from this field trip.

MKWell, I recall we had gone to church that morning, and my father turned the radio on when we got home. That's how we heard about it.

KRYou say your father was a farmer?

MKYes.

KRHow many brothers and sisters did you have?

MKI have one brother and -- four sisters.

KRHad to count there (laughs).

MKHad to stop and think for a minute (laughs). I was counting myself.

KRI understand. So you grew up during the Depression. I've talked to other women whose families were farmers, they don't really have a -- the Depression didn't affect them. How was it for your family?

MKWell, it, my dad was having a hard time trying to pay for the farm and as far as having enough to eat there wasn't any problem there. My mother sold all our clothes pretty much. They were very careful about when we would buy shoes and all of that kind of stuff. It was not easy but we really didn't suffer that much.

KRWhere did you fall in the brothers and sisters?

MKI was the third girl.

KRThe third girl. And was you.

MKThey had another girl and then my brother and then another girl.

KRSo you were kind of in the middle there.

MK Yes.

KROK. But your brother was younger than you.

MKYes.

KROK. So Pearl Harbor happened and you are still in high school at this point. What did you -- did you want to do something to help out? Did you want to do something to help out immediately.

MKI was wanting to. Of course, I wasn't old enough. My senior year -- this was a very small high school. All the grades were in one building and we ended -- the boys, most of the boys in my class ended up quitting school and going into the service. Of course, we didn't have that many. I had one boy that stayed and finished high school with me. There was a total of six of us that graduated from high school that year, which was a very small class.

KRNo kidding. Was it a one room schoolhouse? You were talking about it being in one building -- or did you separate out by grades.

MKWe had two grades in each building. Of course, we didn't have a kindergarten.

KRYou would share a classroom with say, the 11th and 12th graders would be in a classroom together.

MKYes.

KRSo six of you graduated -- five girls and one boy?

MKYes.

KRWow. Did end up enlisting in the military afterwards.

MKAlmost right away or he could have been drafted, I'm not sure. I do know he ended up in the Army.

KRSo after graduation, what did you do?

MKWell, I went to a business college in Missouri. While I was there we had, it would have had to be Army, we didn't have Air Force at the time. It could have been Army Air Corps. They came for training at that college. I wasn't there all that long because we worked at our own rate. I think -- let's see I started probably in September and the 6th of February I went to work at a job in Kansas City, MIssouri.

KRYOu said the Army, men were in training at the college --

MKAll men. All men.

KROK. And you said they were training on the grounds of the college where you were going to school.

MKThat is correct.

KRWhat was that like? Was it odd?

MKThey weren't in the same classrooms with us. They had their separate classes. It was only after, after hours that we spent any time with them at all. Which wasn't a lot.

KR So you graduated in February and you went on to Kansas City. So what did you do in Kansas City.

MKI was a stenographer. Do you know what that means?

KRIt means that you were taking notes, shorthand and notes.

MKRight. And typing. I went from one place to another in short order because I had -- one of my friends from the college was working at the other place and there was somebody in that place wanting a secretary, a stenographer, whatever. So I moved so I could be at the same place she was.

KRSo you started out at one job and moved to another job to work with a friend?

MKThat's correct.

KR And this was in 1943 at this point.

MKCorrect.

KRHad you heard about the SPARs at this time, or do you remember when you first heard about them?

MKWell, my older sisters ended up joining the WAVES. Probably it would have been sometime in 1943, I imagine. OR maybe -- possibly '42. I'm not real sure when. They had joined and been in for awhile. In fact, one of my sisters ended up in yeoman school in Stillwater, Oklahoma. So I made a trip one weekend, took a train to see her. And I was pretty impressed, I guess, to see all of that.

KRWhat was the family reaction to have two sisters join? Because this was something unusual, women hadn't necessarily been in the military before. What did your family think?

MKI know my dad was proud. I think my mother was (laughs) still wondering "Are you all crazy for doing this?" But I think she already, with the older sisters in the service I don't think she minded that I joined too.

KRWhy the SPARs, why not follow your sisters into the WAVES?

MKOh, I had to be different. You know sisters.

KRHave a bit of competition going on there.

MKThat's true.

KRBut you still wanted to join. I know one thing the WAVES and SPARs shared was the uniform was very similar. So you still had the same look your sisters did.

MKThat is correct. We had different insignias on the collars and different buttons. I think that was the only difference.

KRWas seeing your sisters in uniform, was that any, a spur for you to join the military?

MKIt probably was. I didn't see the older sister. I just saw the next oldest to me when I saw her in Oklahoma. That's the only time I saw her, saw them in uniform. To the best of my knowledge. I was not at home in South Dakota where they would have vacations and leaves. They would just go home to South Dakota. They wouldn't go to Kansas City where I was.

KRDo you remember how you first heard about the SPARs?

MKI imagine it must have been something in the newspaper, to the best of my knowledge. I checked on this when I first turned 20, which was the youngest you had to be to join.

KRAnd when did you turn 20?

MKAugust 2nd of 1944.

KRSo as soon as you joined 20 you were going to join one of the services?

MKYes.

KRWhy do that? Other women worked in the factories, did other work to help the government. Why did you join the military?

MKWell, I just had a patriotic feeling is the only thing I can imagine. Whether or not I had the fact that classmates joined the service immediately in high school, that may have had something to do with it.

KRFeeling that you needed to do something like the boys were doing?

MKYes.

KRDid you go to training in Florida? Were you at the hotel down there for your training?

MKYes. I was at the Biltmore Hotel in Palm Beach for both boot camp and then 15 weeks of yeoman training.

KRSo tell me what that was like. For a girl from South Dakota to be going to the Biltmore in Florida has got to be a completely different world.

MKOh, it was (laughs). It was. Of course, when I got there it was the hot time of the year and the Biltmore was not air conditioned at that time. But we were able to open our windows and we were up fairly high on one of the higher floors. I'm sure we got breezes with our open windows. There was six of us in the room and we had a bathroom right in that same room. We had a to have a real schedule so we could all get through the bathroom and do out duties in that short time between revelie and when we had to go to breakfast.

KRIf I -- I seem to recall someone telling me there was an elevator in the hotel and you couldn't use it -- was that correct?

MKI seem to recall we couldn't use the elevators. You know, not coming to and from classes, I'm sure we couldn't. Now as part of my duties while I was in, I think this is while I was in boot camp. I spent some time as somebody who answered the phone on the particular floor where I was and checked to make sure everything was alright. I was lucky, I never did have any KP or had to help in the laundry or anything like that. I was classified duties to answer the phone on whatever floor I was assigned to. Possibly, during that time, we may have been able to use the some of the telephones. I'm sorry, the elevators.

KRBut not for normal days or that sort of thing?

MKNo, I don't remember that, to be honest with you.

KR What was the training like that you were receiving?

MKWe would march, I'd say probably no more than two or three blocks I'd say to the beach where there was a swimming pool, and we'd have our swimming lessons. I never did learn to swim, unfortunately. I did learn to float and get around a little bit, but I never did become a good swimmer. And, of course, we would have our marching. A lot of it in classrooms learning history of the Coast Guard and a lot of the rules and regulations. We did get into a row boat at times and did learn to row those. Other than that, I don't remember a whole lot.

KRIt seems like when you were in Palm Beach and being boots, it sounds like there was a lot of, you know, I think of vacation, but you were in military training and a lot of hard work.

MKWell, it was fun. I enjoyed it and, you know, I didn't go -- on my trip there, I ended up, one lady from Kansas City went with me and I know she didn't go to yeoman's school and I didn't keep track of her after that. For the most part I enjoyed everything.

KRWhat were you hoping to do when you went into the SPARs? Were you hoping -- did you want to be a yeoman or did you want to do something else?

MKWell, since I had just been trained for secretarial-type duties, I just assumed I would be assigned to office work. That was fine with me. I didn't really have any real thoughts about what I would want to do. I just wanted to help out with wherever I had been needed.

KRSince you had already had the secretarial experience and had been to business college, what was yeoman's school like? Did you find it difficult? Was it easy? The training, some people have told me, was quite intense.

MKFor me it was easy, because you know we spent some time talking -- not talking, I'm confused here (laughs). We had spent time typing, doing that, which was something I had already learned. It wasn't hard for me. I did not have to take an arithmetic course because I passed the test they gave when we went in before we went into yeoman's school. So I spent time away. Maybe that was when I spent time answers the phone rather than in boot camp. It's hard to remember these kind of things.

KRWell, it's been a long time ago. I'm sure details blend into one another. So after you went through yeoman's training, you got your assignment. Where were you assigned?

MKTo New Orleans, Louisiana.

KRWow. That's got to be pretty exciting.

MKWell, it was (laughs). It was historical and -- well, the only thing I did up until the last week I was in the Coast Guard was do discharging. Of course, the war had not ended. I was the only one in, the one that did the paperwork, so to say, on who was getting discharged. It wasn't a real rush job or that kind of thing. You might have several some days and then go along and not have any. The, I started out in the custom house, which was the district Coast Guard office of the 8th Naval District. I started there in January of '45. And then early in April we were starting to get, to need more people involved in that type of thing. I'm sure a lot of it was they decided to move us to a receiving station because there were places for people to stay overnight and they had a mess hall and that sort of thing. Whereas at the custom house well, let me back track a little bit. When I was first there, I was in a -- well, it was a small hotel on St. Charles Avenues and I could walk to work from there. But it was a very noisy place. I didn't have -- they didn't -- the only meal we could eat there was breakfast. It was like donuts and coffee and juice, donuts and rolls. It was not a hot breakfast by any means. And we had to eat all out other meals out. So it was, in short order, I moved into an apartment with another SPAR. You know, from there, I did some moving around, but it was just like, almost, like having a civilian job except you wore a uniform every day.

KRDid you mind living in an apartment? Because one of the women I was talking to really minded living in an apartment. She wanted to live in a barracks and have that stability. Did that bother you at all?

MKWell, it probably did at first, at first, but then it was fine after that and you became accustomed to it. I didn't mind it all that much. In fact, we had, we did a lot of visiting with people you worked with or became acquainted with. There was always somebody to go out to dinner with or either that or you were going back, once you got your own apartment and started doing cooking, you did a lot of visiting back and forth between, with other people that were sort of living near you.

KRYou said you were working at the custom's house?

MKYes.

KRWas that a general facility or were the only one doing processing for people, is that correct?

MKYes. I was the only one processing discharges and, of course, I had an ensign supervisor who was making sure I did everything right. But as far as doing work, I was the only one assigned to do that type of work. But like I said, I wasn't there all that long. In the long run we decided it was better off, we needed a bigger operation and more people. We probably had, I think there were, may have been four, five processing, doing the same type of work I was once we moved to the receiving station.

KRAt this point, I'm sure too, were there moves towards peace in Europe at that point?

MKIt happened sometime during that time. I remember it being -- well, walking down Canal Street, which is famous in New Orleans and all the women were kissing all the service people they saw coming down the street. Everybody was in a really jovial mood. I think that's when the war ended in Europe. Of course, we had some people -- some of the interesting people I discharged, of course, they were people that, well, I think they were called what were "cajuns." They were from the little islands off the coast of Louisiana and they were brought into the Coast Guard to help guard the coast, I assume. It was, at some point during that time it was decided that they weren't needed. I found it interesting that these men could not read. They could not, one I discharged said he could not sign his name. The chief would always sign his paycheck. I said, "Well, here it is on your enlistment paper. How did you sign it there?" He said, "Oh, the chief helped me write it." I says, "Well, I guess I'll have to help you sign your discharge papers then." (laughs).

KRYou don't think that in the United States you would find that level of illiteracy.

MKYou know, it was different things. And, of course, there were some psychiatric cases. In that time, if a woman became pregnant, she was immediately discharged. I don't remember doing too many bad conduct discharges. In fact, probably the ones that we would put "undesirable.:"

KRWhat would be a bad conduct discharge? What would cause you to get that?

MKOh, I suppose somebody that had done something seriously wrong and had had a court martial which would say it was time for the person to leave the service. We don't need them.

KRHow did people that you worked with -- were you working with men, women or was it a mix?

MKIt was a mix. I think we had one woman when I was at the receiving station, we had one male doing the same thing that I and two or three other ladies were doing. He was older than we were and married. He kind of took me under his wing, too.

KRWas there acceptance of you within the military?

MKFor the most part, yes, There were a few that were not happy. I guess ones that probably more yeomen that were sent overseas to do things or other classes that had been sent overseas to do fighting if women had not been, had not replaced them. for the most part, we were accepted. I never felt any real animosity.

KRWhat about people in the community. What was their reaction in New Orleans to your presence?

MKMmm, I think they accepted us. I never found anybody that, you know, thumbed their nose at us or said bad things to us. I thought we were well thought of.

KRDid you have a chance to go home on leave ever?

MKI did right after yeoman's school.

KRSo what did your parents have to say about seeing you in uniform and all of that.

MKWell, I think they were proud of me. I didn't get a whole lot, the people in the small town all, you know, that was a nice thing of me to do. I didn't get a, nobody said bad things about me or "why did you ever do something like this?" I think it was just accepted at the time.

KRI know you and your sisters had joined. Were there other people, women who also joined the military from your town?

MKI don't recall any.

KRBut still your family made a big contribution. I've talked to others who've had sisters joined, but it seems like a bit part of your family was a part of this.

MKYes., well since my sisters had joined earlier I don't think it was that big a deal when I joined too. I think it was expected.

KRYour brother was too young to serve, correct?

MKCorrect.

KRSo let's move ahead to VJ Day. What were things, what was the mood then? What happened when you heard the war was over?

MKWell, I think everybody was happy. Happy that the war was over. Let's see. I can't remember the exact date of VJ Day, but after, looking at my discharge paper here is how I know this. We found that our receiving station wasn't big enough to handle all of this. So we ended up moving to a yacht club, and that was called a personnel separation center. From August of '45 to the date I discharged myself, I was pretty much there the whole time. As part of the base force, doing the actual work. I was just looking at the pictures in the booklet we had. We had 44 people in the so-called "records" section which is what I was in. And my little group that I was, ended up in charge of, there were maybe four or five of us that ended up with the final papers, making sure that everything was alright. People had been through their physicals in other departments, been through the pay and then they came to us. We made sure they, everything was in order for their discharge.

KRBefore I get to your leaving, what was it like in New Orleans on VJ Day. Did you go out and celebrate?

MKI'm not sure. I think towards the end I knew things were going to be, were, we knew we couldn't stay in the Coast Guard because all reserves had to be discharged by the end of June in 1946. By that time, I can't remember if I had already started some evening classes, just trying to get back in the swing of, you know, I hadn't used my shorthand in some time. That was something I was brushing up on in a class. And then I was also, I think I was involved in some classes in a university, but that may have been later. It's a little fuzzy.

KRI was actually, I'm glad that you told me about that. But I was asking about VJ Day itself in New Orleans. Did you go out on that or do you remember.

MKI don't remember.

KRYou see pictures of San Francisco or New York and there's all these pictures of celebrations. It seems, New Orleans has a reputation of being very festive, so I would thing there would be some celebrations there.

MKWell, I told you on VE Day, I think was the day that everybody was running and kissing all the servicemen and whooping it up. I may have decided to stay home (laughs) on that and figured this wasn't something that I needed to get into.

KRIt's just too much.

MKYes. Knowing what a party town the city of New Orleans is, I may have elected to stay home. I don't have any memories of that.

KRSo you had to be out by the following June?

MKYes.

KRAnd did you stay until June of 1946, or did you --

MKI did. I did. About my final week, I ended up having to go back to, they knew I had been studying shorthand. I ended up having to take notes at a court martial. About the last week of June and all of my friends, all the base personnel, got out on one day. I think it was a Friday. And I went in on a Saturday. I think a few people in the regular Coast Guard were there and I ended up signing my own papers.

KRSo you signed your own papers for discharge.

MK(laughs). There were so few people there, they still signed things, but I discharged myself. I remember it being a very sad day, because I had missed saying goodbye to a lot of people because I got involved in the job. But, anyway, I decided at that point I was going to stay in New Orleans, anyway, so it didn't bother me that much, I guess.

KRDid you end up keeping in touch with the other people you had served with? Did they stay in New Orleans as well?

MKThey didn't at first, but then they, I had two very good friends who had helped in the discharge section with me who ended up coming back and we were rooommates for awhile. Yes, I still hear from them every year. I still hear from two, two or three other people who were in the SPARs with me.

KRDid you, did you take advantage, I know you said you went back to school. Did you take advantage of the GI Bill after you were discharged?

MKI took courses at Tulane University because, well, I would say within a very, within a week or two of my discharge I started working with the Navy as a civilian in New Orleans.

KR So you couldn't stay out.

MKNo, I guess not. Well, I had tried for some other jobs, but since I was not a local person, I kind of got the could shoulder. Definitely on one job interview I went out for. Another one, oh, I guess I applied for, my eyesight wasn't good enough. Of course, I had veteran's preference for a job with the government so that was fine. I enjoyed work for the Navy there too.

KRIs that how you ended up reenlisting with the Navy when Korea came around?

MKI joined the Naval Reserve when I was working for the Navy. And, of course, there were WAVES that had, taht were working in the building that I was. I think they decided that they did need women. Either that, or all the women in the Navy did not get discharged. I'm not sure which at this point in my life. But we did have some people that were joining the WAVES, you know, and making a career. At least for a four-year enlist, or whatever. I found that I could get paid for a, like a two-week, what they called a training session. Which really wasn't training. I know at least one week I worked in the same building but in a different office. Another time, I don't know if it were one or two weeks, I worked in a different installation in New Orleans. That was my only active duty as a reservist until Korea started.

KRAnd you went with the Navy because, because the Coast Guard at this point wsa not allowing women?

MKThat's correct.

KRThe Navy was the only choice you had.

MKYes.

KRDid you meet your husband through the military?

MKI did during Korea.

KRAnd you got married -- did you guys have kids?

MKSix.

KRWow.

MKYes. I didn't get married until I was 30. So 30, and we had one set of twins. A big family in short order.

KRSo I'm assuming your Navy career got cut short.

MKWell, actually, I spent active duty time when Korea started and I read regulations and I read something that after so many, after so long a tour of duty you could be released. Well, I better tell you what I did. After I quit working for the Navy, I spent, I went to work for the Army in Tokyo, Japan, and that's when Korea started. I thought that they would just keep me there and I would work for the Navy there, but they had other ideas. That's when I ended up being sent back to San Francisco. And I enjoyed the time I spent on active duty. It just got to the point where I thought, well. They said, "Why don't you make chief?" And I was going to have to learn how to swim before I could make chief. And I think I decided at that point I could do as well as a civilian so that was one of the reasons I decided I had had enough active duty.

KRAnd you weren't going to learn to swim at this point.

MK(laughs) I guess so.

KRWell, I have time for one more quick question. How do you think serving in the military -- did it impact your life?

MKDid it what?

KRDid it impact your life? Did it change your life or affect your life in any way?

MKOh, yes, definitely. If I hadn't been in the service, I don't know what I would have done. I suppose I, maybe I would have stayed in Kanas City working there, I don't know. I just always had this feeling that I, I wanted to see more of the world. And I guess that's what being in service helped me do. I met lots of people, I just enjoyed the different, everyplace I worked I enjoyed, and it was just a way of life for me.

KRWell, Monica, I'd like to thank you very much.

MKI enjoyed doing this with you.